Rock Band 2 Tournament Details

[Darque]

As you all know, the Rock Band 2 tournament will be a major event at Connecticon 2009. Here's your chance to get a peek at just what we're doing this year:

Four preliminary tournaments will be held Friday and Saturday before the Main Event. During these Preliminary Events, bands will compete for one of the four slots available in the Main Event. The Main Event and Preliminary Rounds will all follow the same basic rules, unless otherwise noted.

In each Preliminary Event, the competing bands will choose their own music before performing, but with one restriction: we will announce the required band-difficulty ratings for each song. If we call for a 2, 3, and 5, your band must submit a setlist with three songs, one of each at that difficulty rating. We'll be using the in-game difficulty system to make it easy to pick out the right songs, and complete song lists will be readily available.

Let's see if Google Docs works. Here's the link to the current songlist. With over 400 songs to choose from, and maybe some more before the tournament, I think everyone will find something they like without having to hear Maps all weekend. Bands will also not be permitted to repeat any song already performed so far in the current tournament round, so definitely no killing the crowd with Maps. (Let's just stay away from Maps unless we really have to, okay?) In the first round, bands will lock in their setlist when their entrance fee is paid, and in each round thereafter, songs will be chosen according to score.

The scoring system is based on the song's difficulty ratings for each instrument, the player's difficulty level, and the number of stars scored for each song. That means there is some strategy in picking songs - if your drummer is playing on Expert, you want to give him the hardest parts for more points in the final score, for example. There are also bonus points and other modifiers based on your performance - showmanship, good song choice, and stage presence will earn points, while having a player fail during the song will net a negative modifier. A spreadsheet formula takes all these numbers and turns them into a final score for each band's performance. In each round, the lowest-scoring bands will be eliminated, until a winner remains. (I'll see about getting the formula spreadsheet on Google Docs to share, too.)

Getting into a Preliminary Event is easy: just come see us in Video Gaming, pay your entry fee ($20 per band), and submit your setlist for the first round. We'll be capping each Preliminary Event at ten bands. I'll post the final times... uh, whenever they're finalized... but a good rule of thumb here is that there will always be one at most a few hours away. If your band doesn't make it in the Preliminary, then you will be able to sign up for the tournament again at another Preliminary Event, but you'll have to start the process from scratch - including the fee. (Sorry.)

Some other basic rules will be in effect. First and foremost, we have to keep the show going - the audience wants you to rock out, not mess around in the menus. That means no pausing, and you have to have your setlist picked out when you pick up your instruments for each setlist. I really want to give the guitarists their choice of instruments, but you'll be limited to what's available. (Assume Rock Band 2 wireless instruments all around, but we might be able to let you use GH3 or GH:WT instruments.) All rounds will be done on the XBox360 version of Rock Band 2. One member of your band must be assigned as the captain when you sign up. The captain will be responsible for having his or her band gathered together at the proper times, communicating with the judges, submitting setlists, and basically being around during the whole tournament. If you're not onstage, we ask that you stay together with your band and be good audience members for the other bands performing. And, of course, all judge rulings are final.

So the idea is, show up early, play great songs, rock the crowd, and rack up points to win the Preliminary Round and score a ticket to the Main Event. That's where the real show will begin.

In the Main Event, four bands will compete before three special judges. Unlike the Preliminary Rounds, the Main Event will feature just one setlist for each band. Prizes will be given to the highest-scoring band and highest-scoring players, and the overall winner will be chosen by the judges based on performance and score. Further details will be forthcoming on the judges themselves... ooooh, mystery...

And oh, yes, there shall be rock.

[silentbill]

Will breakneck speed be allowed? The general consensus, from what I've read online in other forums (including the RockBand and Score Hero forums) is that using it is simply a matter of personal preference with no serious pros or cons in regards to gameplay-- it makes it easier for some, harder for others. I have seen tournaments where it has been allowed with little to no effect on the overall outcome, and I would hate if this tournament would not see its contestants' full talent because of its omission. I'd rather see a good show where the players can play a the most comfortable than some poor kid screwing up in front of everyone because he didn't realize just how close those notes were to each other. That's not a good time for anyone.
To clarify, I can play with it on or off; this isn't some ploy to make my life a little easier, though i will admit that seeing the 'wall of skittles' halfway through harder songs can be a little daunting.

[Darque]

Will breakneck speed be allowed? The general consensus, from what I've read online in other forums (including the RockBand and Score Hero forums) is that using it is simply a matter of personal preference with no serious pros or cons in regards to gameplay-- it makes it easier for some, harder for others. I have seen tournaments where it has been allowed with little to no effect on the overall outcome, and I would hate if this tournament would not see its contestants' full talent because of its omission. I'd rather see a good show where the players can play a the most comfortable than some poor kid screwing up in front of everyone because he didn't realize just how close those notes were to each other. That's not a good time for anyone.
To clarify, I can play with it on or off; this isn't some ploy to make my life a little easier, though i will admit that seeing the 'wall of skittles' halfway through harder songs can be a little daunting.

You know, I hadn't thought of that.

I don't have any real objection to Breakneck Speed. It doesn't really change gameplay at all, so that's no reason to prohibit it. (I use it myself when I'm playing with anyone in the band at Medium difficulty or lower, just to get the notes spaced close to Expert, which is what I'm used to.) The only problem I can think of is when one band wants it and another doesn't, and how long it will take to go back out to the main menu, change the speed, then go back into the game - it's just one more thing taking up precious seconds between bands. I'm worried enough about guitarists wanting to switch guitars, and at least that can be done from the song select screen in Free Play.

Let's just say that usage of Breakneck Speed is subject to timing and logistics. If we're juggling ten bands in a Preliminary Event, we just don't have the time, and we have to keep playing. If we end up with three bands in a Preliminary Event, on the other hand, and we have the time to play around with it, I say go for it.

[Darque]

I'm going to be adding a few more songs to the setlist here in a few days. I was thinking, first and foremost, of getting the full Iron Maiden pack, and then completing Blood Sugar Sex Magik, and then an assortment of different things after that. If there's anything in particular that you think needs to be added to the lineup, now is the time to let me know, folks.

Again, here is the complete song list as of right now - this is everything in my RB2 library, which is going to be used for the tournament. It includes all the Rock Band 2 songs, everything transferable from the first Rock Band disc, the AC/DC Live disc, and a boatload of DLC.

For clarification... The restrictions that we will be using (as far as the band difficulty ratings for songs in each setlist) will be as loose as possible. The idea isn't to get people playing the hardest songs in the game... actually, quite the opposite: we want to see people moving away from the Impossible songs. Look, if you can play Painkiller, that's great. But constantly using the hardest songs in the game, while we're using our scoring formula, is the same as gaming the scoring system. We want to prevent that, and in the meantime, expand the usual song selection to some tunes that maybe aren't all that hard to play, but are really great songs that the crowd will love. Finding three songs that somehow fit together will also be worth a lot of points - all Red Hot Chili Peppers songs, or all '70s glam-rock songs, or all love songs, or whatever, if they fit the difficulty scheme for the round, may make up the difference between a four-star and a five-star performance. It may be worth it to pick songs that fit together, rather than songs you know.

And yes, you won't know the restrictions for the next round until the previous round is finished and we announce them for everybody. That means that your band will have only a few minutes to pick out their music and get it in to the judges each round. We will provide printed, hardcopy song lists that are sorted by band difficulty, which should help to make things easier - you might need a song from page 3, a song from page 5, and a song from page 2 for a round, for example. All you will have to do is keep crossing off songs as they're locked in with the judges, so you know which ones are already taken - and we'll be trying to make that as easy as possible, too.

I know this seems like a lot of work, but the whole point is to let you choose your own music. I don't want to have to choose something for everyone to play - that's boring, and then we all have to listen to my choice umpteen million times. (And yes, I like Roy Orbison, so you probably don't want me to do that.) So the formula is designed to compare the performances of bands with different difficulty levels playing different songs. You choose your songs, and the formula spits out the winner. But with a bonus modifier for the overall song difficulty, it would be too easy to take just the hardest songs for the highest difficulty bonus, and win the whole tournament. Sorry, but nobody can stand that much Tenacious D and Yngwie Malmstein, so we have to force a little variety on everyone. The good part is that we get to hear some good music that folks who only play the hard stuff may not have even seen in a long time.

Since the major score criterion for the formula is the number of stars you get for each song, the smart cookies out there will have figured out that it's fairly likely that bands will be leveling out at fifteen stars for a three-song setlist. Who wins, then? That's where the performance modifiers come in. You have to nail your songs, of course, to get that maximum star rating. (If you're in an all-Expert band, then yes, Gold Stars are worth 6 stars in the formula... so of course, they are big points.) But then you have to put on a show - impress us, have your guitarist and bassist convincingly singing backup, and the drummer showing off, and all that. Have fun with it. That extra point or two here and there add up to big differences in the final score, with all the multipliers and modifiers. It's even possible for a band with a fourteen-star performance for a setlist beat a band that got fifteen stars. So don't lose heart, don't give up, and keep rocking out, no matter what happens!

[Emptyeye]

So, okay, we play "Maps" 3 times in a row. Got it.

(On a side note, I find it funny that anyone who didn't try qualifying last year is probably looking at your original post and going "What does he have against 'Maps'?" On another side note, I actually enjoy singing the Roy Orbison songs, though I agree that they're probably not the best from an audience-watching standpoint.)

Anyway, songs that I note are missing that I'd personally like to see, keeping in mind that I'm mostly a vocalist and so I'm kind of guessing how hard these are on other instruments. Also keeping in mind that I'll, you know, be competing in the tournament, so I sort of have a vested interest in the song selection:
"Poison" (Alice Cooper)--not that difficult except for part of the guitar solo, but great late-80s fun, especially on vocals.
"Ridin' the Storm Out" (REO Speedwagon)--challenging, but not overly so. More vocals fun.
"Hammerhead" (The Offspring)--this would probably be the least likely on the grounds of "You have plenty of ridiculously hard stuff already", which is fine.
"They're Red Hot" (Red Hot Chili Peppers)--actually really tough on everything but bass despite the fact that it's about a minute long (Random fun fact: It's rated harder than The Perfect Drug on drums!). Apparently Harmonix thought "make the vocal scroll speed really fast" was an acceptable method of adding challenge to Vocals.

Two other questions:
1. Will our difficulties be locked in all tournament, or will we be able to change them if we get thrown an ultra-hard song/one we don't know (The latter being a problem for vocalists in particular)?
2. Speaking of "songs we don't know", will there ever be a point where we won't be in control of what songs we play (Subject to the above-mentioned restrictions)? I know you mentioned that you didn't want to have to pick songs, but you never mentioned whether you actually would pick songs for us or not.)

[Darque]

I'll see what I can do for your song suggestions, Emptyeye. Actually, two of them were already on my "to-get" list, so that works out well. As for Maps... well, those of us that were at the qualifying round last year will remember that fondly.

On to the questions...

1. I assume that most folks won't even want to change difficulty from one round to the next - there really won't be that much call for it. However, no, you aren't locked in on difficulty. You do, however, get a multiplier to your score based on difficulty - 1 for Easy, 1.25 for Medium, 1.5 for Hard, and 2 for Expert - so there's a strong incentive to play on Expert if you can. And I'll be holding the singer's controller, and signed in with my profile, among other reasons, so that I can be sure that nobody says that they're playing on one difficulty level when they're actually on another. None of that now! You are, however, locked in for a performance, one setlist. So if you're required to play a 1, 3, and 6 difficulty setlist, for example, then you'll have to choose between struggling with the 6 on Expert or getting the score disadvantage on Hard. Thanks to the scoring formula, the difficulty that you're playing at is one of the key strategic choices that each player must make. You might be able to play on Expert, but your attention is completely devoted to the screen, which will hurt your performance. Strategy, strategy, strategy.

2. There is a small possibility that the special judges may end up picking one song for each band in the Main Event. I'm kind of leaning away from that, though, because I'd rather see the bands make that decision themselves. I think that song choice is an important element of your band's overall performance, and even the order in which your songs are performed should matter. If there is some esoteric, and not necessarily obvious, tie between the songs, the singer may want to take advantage of the intros, outros, and the few seconds between songs to help the audience figure it out. That's one of the best parts to being a singer - you get a microphone, and you can use it to entertain and rack up points with the judges.

I hope that helps, and I'll see you there.

[banshee]

I just have a few song additions I would like to see added to the list for tournament purposes...

1) Screaming for Vengeance by Judas Priest
2) The Flood by Escape the Fate

(also a few songs that are pretty awesome on guitar and you might want to consider getting for yourself are..
Warriors of Time by the Black Tide
The entire Yangwie Malmsteen pack(my fav is Red Devil)

[Hatake130]

wow this tounament looks like it could be fun.
i might need to asemble a team to win it

[Darque]

I just have a few song additions I would like to see added to the list for tournament purposes...

1) Screaming for Vengeance by Judas Priest
2) The Flood by Escape the Fate

(also a few songs that are pretty awesome on guitar and you might want to consider getting for yourself are..
Warriors of Time by the Black Tide
The entire Yangwie Malmsteen pack(my fav is Red Devil)

Oy vay, Yngwie. Yeah, I've tried a few of those. I'm not a huge fan of his music, and as a person, he's repulsive in every way, but I can probably swing a song from that pack. If you could just pick one, which would it be?

(And Judas, at least, is already on my to-get list, too. I'm glad you guys keep picking stuff that I've already chosen.)

[banshee]

Out of the Malmsteen pack my favorite is Red Devil. Its also the only one I can do on expert guitar. As a person, yes, he is repulsive. But I happen to like this song a lot.

and... ok let me get this strait. If I don't make it in time for the first prelim, I can still sign up for the second one?

[Darque]

and... ok let me get this strait. If I don't make it in time for the first prelim, I can still sign up for the second one?

Absolutely. The signups for the second Preliminary will actually start about halfway through the first one. In fact, if you get eliminated, you can jump right into the next one - you just have to start over, sign up, pay the entry fee, and you're back in the running. You don't even have to go with the same band, so you can find better teammates, or replace people who have other events to do, or whatever. The only restriction for entering multiple rounds is that if you win a Prelim, you're locked in with that band, so you're already on your way to the Main Event, and you can't enter again.

[Emptyeye]

I was actually wondering about that. Yeah, it would be a dick thing to do, but until you posted that, I didn't think there was anything technically prohibiting a person from winning a slot in the finals, then entering another prelim to try and win a second spot (With either the same or a different band).

Anyway, other thoughts:

I quite like the ruleset as laid out (And though we're trying to avoid the "Maps" debacle of last year, I should point out that we actually four songs as much or more than "Maps" last year throughout the tournament). That said, if the system can be "gamed" as you say by one band just picking the hardest songs, I would argue that the system needs some tweaking (Keeping in mind that I'm presuming that it'd be possible to win only by picking something like "Painkiller" regardless of how well you do on it. Honestly, if a band can pick "Painkiller" and actually do well on it while performing the hell out of it, then that band should win as far as I'm concerned). Not that it'll matter with the current ruleset, since everyone will have roughly the same difficulties anyway..just a thought.

Either way, though, I'm looking forward to this.

[Darque]

Emptyeye, I've run quite a few simulations using the formula now, and it seems that things are balancing nicely by setting the band-difficulty for each song. It still leaves a lot of choices for songs, but it's a lot harder to game the system by just taking the hardest songs. Of course there's still the issue that some songs seemingly have out-of-whack difficulty ratings, but by not being able to repeat songs, that means it'll be a lot harder to really make the most out of them. The way the rules sit now, the real big advantages go to the bands whose players are playing at Hard or Expert (which is as it should be) and those who are putting on the best show and picking up bonus points from the judges (again, just as it should be).

And yeah, we can still call for that 6-difficulty song, so we can still see Painkiller - and the band that nails gold stars on Painkiller really should be in the finals and a strong contender for overall winner.

One thing I'm worried about, though, and has been bugging us as we're working on the logistics of the tournament, has been the issue of people who prefer using the Guitar Hero guitars. It will end up bogging us down a bit. I've arranged some measures to mitigate the amount of time spent switching instruments, so it shouldn't take up too much of our time. Still, I would encourage everybody to use the Rock Band 2 wireless guitars - so unless your preference is really strong for the Guitar Hero guitars, please practice with a Rock Band guitar. It'll just make life easier for everyone.

Other than that, I'm really pleased with the improvements to the hardware we've seen since last year's tournament. Tuning the timing is a snap, thanks to the fact that the RB2 guitars auto-detect lag. Everything being wireless means that players will be able to move around the "stage" more, and concentrate on putting on a show rather than trying not to trip over cords. It's as if all our problems last year have led to major improvements in the hardware.

Okay, so one more thing I want to throw out there for everyone: some guidelines for each of the instruments, and how they can impress the judges.

Guitarists: This judge in particular is a hard-core Rock Band guitarist. I'll be watching for good fingering technique, strong solos using the finger-tap buttons, good use of hammer-ons/pull-offs, artistic use of the whammy bar (just bending every note really isn't artistic, is it?), and so on. For stage presence, I'll see if we can have a couple of extra mic stands with dummy microphones set up for the guitarist and bassist, to simulate back-up vocals. Look like a rock star!

Bassists: Along with pretty much all the same stuff as the guitarists, I'll also be paying attention to bass-style up-strumming. Pro tip: getting the "Authentic Strummer" award is an automatic bonus.

Drummers: Think Tommy Lee. We'll try to make sure there is as large a kit as possible, with the double bass pedal and extra cymbals, so you'll have plenty of stuff to do from the hot seat. Twirl the sticks, be flashy with the cymbals, and give us clean, crisp fills. Of course, cut it out with the random drumming before the first note - that looks bad and messes up your bandmates.

Vocalists: The drummer may be the one breaking a sweat, but you've got the hardest job of all. One reason: I'm turning off the in-game vocals. You're on your own - no simply singing along with the original vocal track, because it'll be off. We'll be hearing your voice, and only your voice, through every song. So, naturally, we will want real singing - just humming along quietly will lose a lot of points, even if the game thinks you're doing great. Unlike the other positions, singers get to do all sorts of stuff when they don't have a part without any score penalty, and we want you to make the most of it. Introduce your band members between songs, announce your song at the beginning, ad-lib, pump up the crowd, get people clapping, dance, and generally do all the stuff real singers do during shows. This competition is where the real singers get to shine as the frontman (or frontwoman!) of the group. But one major rule: don't swear into the microphone. Please don't. This is a family-friendly event, and the last thing we need is someone singing the real lyrics to Sir Psycho Sexy or going off on some profane tirade about roadies and Celine Dion. There are kids out there, so act accordingly, mm-kay?

But most of all, have fun. Play like you love the game, and we'll be able to see it. Missing one or two notes along the way will matter a whole lot less than letting us see you getting lost in the music. You know why I'm doing all this for Rock Band? Because I love the game, and I think that the ones who love it most are the ones that this tournament is all about.

And yeah, I really can't wait for this. It's going to be such a blast.

[Darque]

Something else I forgot to add... If your band fails a song, it is not the end of the world! Yes, you will lose points if someone drops out, and yes, you will lose even more points if the band doesn't finish a song. But here's the deal: if you fail out of the first or second song of your setlist, I will, as quickly as possible, reload the rest of your set and get you playing again. The show must go on! Just regroup, take a breath, and hit the next song harder. It's bad, but it's not an all-loss situation. Just don't break character!

And please, we'll be using my guitars. Don't do the guitar smash, or you'll be getting me a new one.

[Emptyeye]

Speaking of logistics:

As a vocalist, I couldn't care less about breakneck speed (Literally--it doesn't affect vocal scroll speed). That said, I don't know how you plan to order the bands (If at all), but one suggestion might be to ask the instrumentalists in each band "Does your band use Breakneck Speed?". Based on the answer, order the bands such that you have a chunk of regular speed bands going first, followed by the Breakneck Speed bands (or vice versa). That way, you're only bombing out to the main menu, at most, once per tourney (And maybe not at all, depending on band preferences), as opposed to multiple times.

Oh, and if the issue comes up in the finals, I don't know exactly what the AV situation will be (IE whether there will be a projector so that the audience and judges can see the game screen), but if the judges get to see the game, you might want to mention that the (Lack of) breakneck speed shouldn't influence their decisions at all.

Also, I'm guessing that not staring at the screen will be worth bonus points as far as the performance aspect goes.